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mjm1905
04-02-2004, 01:00 AM
Hello everyone,

As many of us probably already noticed it is difficult and time consuming to develop a traffic stream. Moreover, develop a significant or mainstream income from a new website. I have done some research and developed an idea, based on the parameters I have read involving search engine optimization. I think many will agree, that this could be beneficial to the development of our websites.

I believe Search Engines are the most powerful resource on the internet to get our websites established. It would be more than difficult for anyone to argue, the bulk of surfers turn to search engines to find what they are seeking. Additionally, based on responses from questioning some friends, relatives, and co-workers, I believe most surfers pass the sponsored results options on the top of search results page. However, I also think that their experience of surfing should be considered with this aspect. The people I had questioned showed negativity toward results followed by, "sponsored results," when trying to find a website. On the other hand, I think someone who is new to the Internet would have little focus on this aspect.

I have scouted around viewing various Meta tag analyzers, and read some biased and unbiased tutorials and documents pertaining to search engines and how they operate. I have come to the realization that Goggle is modestly used and a fair search engine. Their results seem to be networked with other search engines, and they are the search backbone for some Internet Service Providers.

While it is not difficult to be indexed within their search results, I found it is difficult to establish a modest ranking. This seems to be especially true for a new website. As I mentioned, I have used various Meta tag analyzers, and other tools that are available. While it seems they are all indicating that my website is, "robot friendly," my results for good search engine placement have, thus far, been in vein. As a result, I decided to focus primarily on Goggle, and went to the source itself to gain knowledge of how the website operates. Here is an excerpt of the documentation which has spawned this effort:

Google Technology (http://www.google.com/technology/)

Page Rank Explained

Page Rank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."

Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.

Initially, after reading this documentation, I began weekly postings of my website to a variety of Free for All Link pages. This transpired over the course of one month. As a result, my website is indexed within the Google results. However, when I post relevant search queries, related to my website, the results are showing FFA pages which no longer contain my link. Moreover, it would seem that my posts have provided a greater benefit to the FFA page than myself. I found this to be disturbing to say the least.

While some of you may have compiled successful ways to increase your page ranking, I am still struggling and attempting to resolve this issue. I had checked my page rank, using an online resource, which implied a ranking of 0/10. This is the lowest rank within Google. As anyone with the same results would be, I am determined to improve this result. Moreover, I want to ensure that I know, first hand, how and why my site can be or is increased.

Once again analyzing the Google Page Rank System, I placed some emphasis on the regards towards the quality of the site casting the vote. If I understand correctly, the FFA pages to which my site was posted, bared a low ranking for common search query that I am seeking. Therefore my site maintains no relevant votes. With this in mind, I began to research other venues of possibilities.

I have come to believe, strongly, that a ring could help any of us that face this dilemma. With consideration of the page ranking system, I have located a Web ring site that bares a rank of 6/10 (using an online resource). The ring Site is Bomis.com. There are classified and auction sites that are listed in some of the rings, and the information is pulled from a directory referred to as DMOZ. Apparently it would be relatively easy for us to have our sites indexed within this directory, and included within the rings that use DMOZ for the results. However, based on the information from above, I think that two votes from a website would increase the standing, rather than one.

Here is what I have in mind. I have gone through the measures of procuring a web ring on Bomis.com. The ring I created is called the Internetsalesring. I have included my site on the ring. However, to get any recognition, and have the ring included in their tree, it must have some meat to it. Therefore, I am seeking other classified webmasters who would have the same concern and may wish to participate in this development.

I have placed some emphasis on the following consideration and devised some remediation. If anyone shares the same interest, I would appreciate feedback. While I realize that many of us look upon one another as competition, I think this plan could be in our best interest. First, I think it would be necessary to have some reciprocity among our websites’ and the ring. While having a link to other classified and auction sites on our front page may not be in our best interest, I think it could be done using a sub-page that the robots view. This may, or should, increase the indexing of our sites with relative search queries. Being that are websites are relevant to one another. Additionally, I realize that everyone who would participate would need place significant trust in me, as the ring leader. As a solution, I am willing to keep my website at the bottom of the ring (the last of results).

If you are respectively willing to participate, you can suggest a link from the ring page which should be accessible from the top left corner of this URL (http://www.bomis.com/rings/internetsalesring).

I would greatly appreciate any comments or considerations from other users. I could easily understand others being hesitant to participate in such an endeavor. However, I would like to assure everyone, I am in no way considering compromising anyones traffic. I am fully focused on providing my website high ranks within relative searches.

Robertc
04-03-2004, 12:32 AM
Based on resent announcments by google and others they plan to start penalising link ring groups.... so i am not willing to participate as i have worked very hard to get my ranking to where it is already with out paying any money.

mjm1905
04-03-2004, 04:38 AM
Hello Robertc,

They are going to start penalizing webrings? I am curiouse where you came across that information, as I have not seen any reference on the Search Engine pages.

Michael

mjm1905
04-03-2004, 06:35 AM
Hello RobertC,

O.k. you really turned my head now, being your site has a noteable ranking. I suspect this is because you were fortunate enough to be listed on a well respected website. One of my resources pointed to a listing you have on a local directory that gave you such a high placaement. Your key factor seems to be Machinery, or keyword (as called). Unfortunately, I can not seem to find the same type of resource for a, "vote,".

Shortley after reading your post, I browsed back over to Google. I am finding the amount of information posted outside of their site is puzzling. I found a reference in the Google Questions section, regarding webrings:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=300464

To answer your question about a webring, a webring is defined as, "A
WebRing is an Internet service and concept which links together a
group of sites that have the same theme. In each WebRing, member Web
sites have banded together to form their sites into linked circles.
Their purpose: to allow more visitors to reach them quickly and
easily." Definition from Net Set Go.com,
- http://www.netsetgo.com/glossary.php

At one time, webrings were very popular, but they are seen as "amateurish" now.

Because of the use of words, "At one time," implied, I would assume that this is a very old method of creating a recognized product or service branding. However, I would really like to have a better understanding of development practices. Although they may be old, the idea seems reasonable practicle, in my eyes. I fail to see any negative reasoning towards the webring formatting and idea. I would greatly appreciate if you could provide further insight.

Michael

Robertc
04-03-2004, 04:06 PM
I am on the mailing list for a web zine called webpronews.com......very informative and also full of marketing 'crap' but it has what i need to start my day off researching/keeping up with the search engine news.

I also use a product called web CEO to track my rankings and do reporting for my potential customers......this program and my rankings have got me through doors that would have never opened to me but for this type of information about prespective customers and their businesses and what our site is doing......

Just you wait untill admin sourts out a could of my program mod requests and then i will really get going on rankings etc.

THe site also is still not finished as we have not gone past the 'Beta' stage yet demostrating it to potential customers and learning how to do things with the ENterprise product, but 99.9% of our current listings a real ones.

mjm1905
04-03-2004, 06:23 PM
Thanks for the feedback and information. I am curious as to where you subscribe to the newsletter. I am assuming it would be webpronews.com... That sounds like a nice newsletter to receive, daily information on web related issues.

I am downloading a free version of the web ceo program to analyze. It sounds similar to what my host provides, but I will see shortly.

I would be carefull putting up false advertisements. I realize you are in a different country, but I am sure there are serious penalties for an infraction of advertising regulations.

Thanks again,

Michael

Robertc
04-03-2004, 06:51 PM
no false advertising for me......just ads saying.....'testing testin'....lol

mjm1905
04-04-2004, 12:18 PM
Hello RobertC,

I wanted to thank you again. I downloaded the software you mentioned and it pointed out some pretty interesting points-of-view. I have made some corrections as the program suggested. I guess it will once again take a while to be recognized throughout the search engines.

I have read somewhere, that submitting your site close together will cause a red flag, because they think you are "spamming" the search engine. Therefore I really don't want to push my limits.


One thing that was noted. The code that is generated by the Bomis Webring software uses Frames. I did not realize this until I ran the program. It suggested that I remove the frames, even if it was in a subpage. I found this strange. It would appear that the searc engines view your entire website from the index page.


I am maintaining the webring, but without putting the webring code on pages... It would appear to be a knowledgable decision.

mjm1905
04-04-2004, 03:06 PM
Hello All,

This program RobertC recomends is outstanding. I am impressed with the features of this overall. I highly recomend the use of this to everyone.

One thing that I noticed, in regards to the "Keywords" optimizer. This program tells you the number of daily searchs and the number of websites targeting the keywords. What do some of you think in respect to the number of keyword competitiors.

For example, being that the I am noticing on this program and from other articles I read, the keyword prominence in the title and url are very important (Think thats why geodesic named the file classifeds.php?). It would seem logical to put the most searched words in the title and the url. However, should there be consideration placed on the competition. Say Classifieds has 28,000 daily searches, but there are 7,000,000 competitors. It would seem your a needle in a hay stack. On the other hand, if you can truly get to the top of results for a highly searched term, you would be raking in traffic. On the other hand, if you run the results through a percentage formula, it would seem that you have a much higher percentage of getting traffic from less frequent search terms, with much less competition.

I am just rambling a bit here. I have gained a new found respect for this section of the community. I would really like to hear some feedback from others. This is a pretty important factor to all of us.

Michael